Posts by the pharmer

138

Still a hard line on DF family members WTApr15 2012

by Gladring in

the april 2012 wt study article has some of the most strongly worded statements about contact with disfellowshipped family members.. page 12, paragraph 17: -.

good that can come when a family loyally.

upholds jehovahs decree not to associate.

Australia Jehovah's Witnesses Child Abuse/Governing Body Of Jehovah's Witnesses Court Case

by mind blown in

.. case number: b12083527.

.. case number: b12083108.

.. case number: b12083367.

C.O. Jonsson's response to Watchtower's latest 607 articles

by wannabefree in

http://kristenfrihet.se/vtsvar/vtsvar1.pdf.

(thanks to augustin for bringing this to our attention in another thread.

).

Complete quote?

by the pharmer in

i found a quote at this site: http://www.getphpbb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=498&highlight=&sid=815e0686c02215e3bccb4ac31f5971bd&mforum=jw.

can someone give me the missing parts so i can see what the original author said in its complete form?

if you look at that site, you can see that the quote given says:.

the pharmer

Great points Leolaia! I agree with what you said; well put! ;)

They use this source, Paul L. Kaufman (deceptively it appears), to support their rendering pisteuo eis as "exercising faith".

John apparently uses pisteuo as a verb along with the preposition eis 36 times (according to Paul Kaufman). Verbs have direct objects, and the direct object of pisteuo in these constructs is whatever follows the preposition eis. So, for example, in Jn 3:16, ...whoever believes (pisteuo) in him..., "him" (Jesus) is the direct object.

The WT in their NWT add the verb "exercising" to this verse. However, by adding the verb "excercising" to this verse (...everyone exercising faith (pisteuo) in him...), the verb is now exercising and it has effectively changed pisteuo from being a verb to being a noun; pisteuo is now the direct object of the verb exercising!, and Jesus is now reduced grammatically to an indirect object! It completely shifts the focus.

John uses pisteuo as a verb with an internal action directed on or into Jesus -- the direct object. Mr. Kaufman emphasized this point and said, "i.e. putting faith into someone." When the WT quotes him, this emphasis is lost.

WT uses pisteuo as a noun (exercising pisteuo), making pisteuo the direct object of the verb exercising, and they use Paul Kaufman to support their reasoning. But Paul Kaufman in the actual quote says, "...pisteuo with eis...which should be translated I believe in or I believe on..." and he is actually emphasizing how eis ought to be translated, but the WT hides these facts.

I believe they have quoted Paul L. Kaufman in a horribly dishonest way.

5

Complete quote?

by the pharmer in

i found a quote at this site: http://www.getphpbb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=498&highlight=&sid=815e0686c02215e3bccb4ac31f5971bd&mforum=jw.

can someone give me the missing parts so i can see what the original author said in its complete form?

if you look at that site, you can see that the quote given says:.

the pharmer

I know I can get a bit wordy, but I wonder if anyone has any additional thoughts/comments on my find. Maybe it's old news.

5

Complete quote?

by the pharmer in

i found a quote at this site: http://www.getphpbb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=498&highlight=&sid=815e0686c02215e3bccb4ac31f5971bd&mforum=jw.

can someone give me the missing parts so i can see what the original author said in its complete form?

if you look at that site, you can see that the quote given says:.

the pharmer

My underlining was just to show the points I thought were especially significant.

5

Complete quote?

by the pharmer in

i found a quote at this site: http://www.getphpbb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=498&highlight=&sid=815e0686c02215e3bccb4ac31f5971bd&mforum=jw.

can someone give me the missing parts so i can see what the original author said in its complete form?

if you look at that site, you can see that the quote given says:.

the pharmer

So, to get an answer, I purchased the book myself.

Even without considering the context with which the author (Paul L. Kaufman) was presenting his material (the context was presenting and discussing the various cases with verbs), it is quite telling to see what was left out of the quote.

From pg 46 of his book, the author first makes a statement followed by 5 points/examples. The quote that the WTBTS leaves incomplete is from the author’s 4 th point/example. (Note, I don’t know how to put Greek letters in this excerpt).

The first statement is, “Some verbs in Greek may take more than one case or they may take a case different from what the corresponding verbs in English would take, thus: …” and then he goes on to the 5 points.

The author’s 4 th point being:

“Pisteuo takes the dative, thus: I believe the apostle. Another construction which is common in the New Testament (especially John’s Gospel) is pisteuo with eis and the accusative case which is to be translated I believe in or I believe on , thus: I know the Lord and I am believing on Him. The whole construction of eis plus the accusative must be translated rather than attempting to translate the preposition eis as an isolated word. Faith is thought of as an activity, as something men do, i.e. putting faith intosomeone . John uses this construction thirty-six (36) times.”

The underlining and highlights are mine. I’ve highlighted the missing parts yellow. Also, notice where I highlighted in green, there is only one word that the original author italicized – into – whereas the WTBTS italicizes “putting faith into someone.” By italicizing the other words surrounding the word “into”, the WTBTS have effectively taken away the author’s object of emphasis.

Any comments?

5

Complete quote?

by the pharmer in

i found a quote at this site: http://www.getphpbb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=498&highlight=&sid=815e0686c02215e3bccb4ac31f5971bd&mforum=jw.

can someone give me the missing parts so i can see what the original author said in its complete form?

if you look at that site, you can see that the quote given says:.

the pharmer

I found a quote at this site: http://www.getphpbb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=498&highlight=&sid=815e0686c02215e3bccb4ac31f5971bd&mforum=jw

Can someone give me the missing parts so I can see what the original author said in its complete form? If you look at that site, you can see that the quote given says:

According to Paul Kaufman, An Introductory Grammar of New Testament Greek

Faith is thought of as an activity

The TSO (TRUTH SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA) --- any body want to play?? :)

by the pharmer in

this is just meant to be for fun...the theme doesnt even have to be exclusively wt based.

my intention is to have fun with this, but to also be able to draw as many parallels as possible in the end that could apply to any group claiming exclusivity.

i invite anyone/everyone who wants to participate by adding/subtracting/changing to this dialogue to do so.

the pharmer

This is just meant to be for fun…the theme doesn’t even have to be exclusively WT based. My intention is to have fun with this, but to also be able to draw as many parallels as possible in the end that could apply to ANY group claiming exclusivity. I invite anyone/everyone who wants to participate by adding/subtracting/changing to this dialogue to do so. If it’s a total flop, or if people hate the idea, oh well…I’ll amuse myself with it on my own…no expectations, no worries. :)

If anyone is interested in adding a statement or more to the script, feel free to change what has already been written by others.

This is all probably plain silly, but oh well, I’ve never done anything like this before, and I feel like my brain needs a bit of a break.

As you can see by what follows, the householder needs to come up with some questions to ask the TSO members.

Any suggestions as to what questions to ask? :)

Setting:

A couple of members of the exclusive TRUTH SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA (TSO) are going door-to-door to talk to people about a famous piece of music.

TSO MEMBERS (TSO-M)

“We heard you practicing some music, and from what we could hear, it sounds like you are pretty musical.”

HOUSEHOLDER (HH)

“Thanks, I try, but this piece is very challenging in some areas, and I want to keep making progress on it.”

TSO-M

“We are fond of that piece too, in fact, we are official members of the TSO – Truth Symphony Orchestra – and we perform that piece all the time! We have a study book devoted to it; would you be interested in studying it with usand learning what this music is reallysupposed to sound like; what The Composer reallyintended?”

HH

“That’s interesting. Well, I consider myself to be a competent musician and a dedicated student of this particular piece. I think I have a good grasp for the most part, but by you saying you can teach me what it really is supposed to sound like implies that I don’t already have a good grasp. Although I normally welcome and enjoy hearing other’s opinions and interpretations, I know nothing of your TSO organization or the conductor(s) who lead it. Do you mind if I ask you some questions first?”

[??? To be continued by anyone/everyone???]

20

"When Was the Bible Written?" June 1, 2011 Public Edition--Oh, Wow!

by Cadellin in

i say, "oh, wow!

" because this article is a showcase for all of the ways that the writing dept.

has lost any shred of authoritative ethos or credibility.

the pharmer

marking